1 00:00:10,669 --> 00:00:07,430 let me know when you see alive Hubble 2 00:00:14,089 --> 00:00:10,679 hang out and help hello everybody and 3 00:00:16,070 --> 00:00:14,099 welcome to the 225th meeting of the 4 00:00:17,390 --> 00:00:16,080 american astronomical society my name is 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:17,400 Tony Darnell I work at the Space 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:19,410 Telescope Science Institute and we are 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:21,210 here at the northrop grumman booth in 8 00:00:26,179 --> 00:00:23,490 the exhibit hall to talk about a really 9 00:00:29,089 --> 00:00:26,189 cool project called star shape and with 10 00:00:30,830 --> 00:00:29,099 me as I again after a long time is my 11 00:00:32,150 --> 00:00:30,840 old friend Alberto continent this 12 00:00:33,290 --> 00:00:32,160 awkward thing going with the microphone 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:33,300 I'm going to have to give it back and 14 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:34,890 forth to him in a min i'm going to let 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:36,930 him speak to us but first interact with 16 00:00:42,170 --> 00:00:38,730 us send us questions talk to us on 17 00:00:43,670 --> 00:00:42,180 Twitter Facebook and G+ as well as the 18 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:43,680 YouTube page from which this is being 19 00:00:47,389 --> 00:00:45,690 broadcast this is on our Hubble site 20 00:00:49,459 --> 00:00:47,399 channel we're looking at your comments 21 00:00:51,529 --> 00:00:49,469 if you use the hashtag Hubble hang out 22 00:00:54,910 --> 00:00:51,539 we will see that on Twitter and I've got 23 00:00:57,319 --> 00:00:54,920 lots of people looking up for those of 24 00:00:59,660 --> 00:00:57,329 tweets from you as well as the comments 25 00:01:01,279 --> 00:00:59,670 on g+ and facebook so ask us questions 26 00:01:02,569 --> 00:01:01,289 about starshade we're gonna you don't 27 00:01:04,219 --> 00:01:02,579 know what it is we're going to find out 28 00:01:05,119 --> 00:01:04,229 so I got I got people here from Northrop 29 00:01:08,149 --> 00:01:05,129 Grumman to tell us but before I 30 00:01:10,670 --> 00:01:08,159 introduce them Alberto it's good to see 31 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:10,680 you again after do this which is a lock 32 00:01:15,020 --> 00:01:12,930 what is it I have to wait to respond to 33 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:15,030 you it's good to see you again we 34 00:01:19,070 --> 00:01:16,110 haven't be we haven't seen each other 35 00:01:20,690 --> 00:01:19,080 for quite some time actually here and so 36 00:01:23,539 --> 00:01:20,700 this is actually routine for us so we 37 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:23,549 should do this often the old days so 38 00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:24,630 we're going to do this I wanted to 39 00:01:28,010 --> 00:01:25,830 mention we can do this throughout the 40 00:01:29,870 --> 00:01:28,020 week so you're going to do it half and 41 00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:29,880 half at the North three booths and half 42 00:01:32,899 --> 00:01:31,680 at the space let's go booth which is 43 00:01:34,399 --> 00:01:32,909 fantastic so we're going to talk about 44 00:01:36,170 --> 00:01:34,409 lots of topic start is just the 45 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:36,180 first one we have great people here for 46 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:37,530 a new program to tell you exactly what 47 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:40,590 they are and well they leave it up to 48 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:43,710 you let's let's get it on so I'm glad so 49 00:01:46,370 --> 00:01:45,240 you tell people what you're doing a 50 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:46,380 northrop though i don't think people 51 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:47,970 know what you do you left this institute 52 00:01:51,859 --> 00:01:50,130 to do what are you doing now little 53 00:01:53,990 --> 00:01:51,869 strange title i'm an innovation manager 54 00:01:55,550 --> 00:01:54,000 for civil air and spaces so i work in 55 00:01:58,340 --> 00:01:55,560 the business development organization so 56 00:01:59,630 --> 00:01:58,350 i have in my portfolio things like jwst 57 00:02:01,370 --> 00:01:59,640 which I support I can continue to 58 00:02:03,319 --> 00:02:01,380 support but also things like we're going 59 00:02:05,330 --> 00:02:03,329 to talk about today star shades and 60 00:02:07,130 --> 00:02:05,340 maybe next generation flagship so it's a 61 00:02:10,249 --> 00:02:07,140 very very trusting job very very hectic 62 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:10,259 and it's love it yeah well we miss you 63 00:02:13,710 --> 00:02:12,690 at the Institute that's for sure so okay 64 00:02:15,780 --> 00:02:13,720 let's get to let's get to the 65 00:02:17,250 --> 00:02:15,790 just get to the me oh one more thing if 66 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:17,260 you want to keep track of where we're 67 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:18,850 going on what what hangouts are coming 68 00:02:21,990 --> 00:02:20,350 next the best way to do that is to 69 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:22,000 follow our Facebook page Hubble 70 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:24,550 telescope also follow Hubble NASA Hubble 71 00:02:29,910 --> 00:02:27,970 he'll be tweeting on that as well as I'd 72 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:29,920 be posting the events on google+ so 73 00:02:32,850 --> 00:02:30,970 that's how you're going to know which 74 00:02:34,230 --> 00:02:32,860 hangouts are coming up next all the ones 75 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:34,240 for today are already posted we have a 76 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:35,710 whole nother slew of them planned 77 00:02:39,690 --> 00:02:38,290 tomorrow so ok let me get to our guests 78 00:02:41,610 --> 00:02:39,700 I have with me an astronomer from 79 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:41,620 Northrop Grumman his his name's Ron 80 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:44,530 politan I had to look at your I'm so bad 81 00:02:47,790 --> 00:02:46,630 at names he is an astronomer at Northrop 82 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:47,800 Grumman welcome so I tell us a little 83 00:02:52,020 --> 00:02:49,930 about what you're doing I'm the science 84 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:52,030 manager for Northrop Grumman and with 85 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:54,280 regard to star shades I've been there 86 00:02:57,570 --> 00:02:55,930 since the beginning when about 10 years 87 00:02:59,610 --> 00:02:57,580 ago when the concept first came into 88 00:03:01,620 --> 00:02:59,620 being we did some stuff with the 89 00:03:03,690 --> 00:03:01,630 university of colorado and what resulted 90 00:03:05,940 --> 00:03:03,700 from that was this concept of a star 91 00:03:07,410 --> 00:03:05,950 shade awesome and also with me and Steve 92 00:03:09,570 --> 00:03:07,420 Warrick he's an engineer building the 93 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:09,580 thing I see hey how you doing tell us a 94 00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:10,750 little about what what you're doing so 95 00:03:14,460 --> 00:03:12,040 most of what we're doing at the moment 96 00:03:17,490 --> 00:03:14,470 is testing the optics of the starshade 97 00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:17,500 seeing how the starshade does what it's 98 00:03:21,420 --> 00:03:19,780 supposed to do which is to block out the 99 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:21,430 light of a star so that we can see the 100 00:03:26,610 --> 00:03:24,610 light from a planet an exoplanet well 101 00:03:27,750 --> 00:03:26,620 welcome to both of you from to our to 102 00:03:28,650 --> 00:03:27,760 our Hubble hang on I appreciate this 103 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:28,660 even though we're talking about 104 00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:31,090 starshade it is it is in fact the hub 105 00:03:34,140 --> 00:03:33,040 will hang out so so Ron let me get back 106 00:03:35,940 --> 00:03:34,150 to you a little bit tell us tell 107 00:03:37,620 --> 00:03:35,950 everybody what this thing is what are 108 00:03:39,390 --> 00:03:37,630 you doing what is starshade and what are 109 00:03:42,030 --> 00:03:39,400 you hoping to accomplish with it only 110 00:03:43,550 --> 00:03:42,040 the big issue with seeing exoplanets 111 00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:43,560 these are planets that are round stars 112 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:46,420 outside the solar system planets are 113 00:03:49,710 --> 00:03:47,950 very faint stars very bright so 114 00:03:51,690 --> 00:03:49,720 astronomers have been struggling for a 115 00:03:53,670 --> 00:03:51,700 long time with how to suppress that 116 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:53,680 starlight and then see the planets 117 00:03:58,229 --> 00:03:56,410 around it about 10 years ago we came up 118 00:03:59,130 --> 00:03:58,239 with this concept for something that's 119 00:04:01,350 --> 00:03:59,140 very different from the traditional 120 00:04:04,530 --> 00:04:01,360 approach which is to build an instrument 121 00:04:06,420 --> 00:04:04,540 and put it inside the telescope and get 122 00:04:08,430 --> 00:04:06,430 rid of the Starlight through some sort 123 00:04:10,580 --> 00:04:08,440 of internal thing this is a device 124 00:04:13,770 --> 00:04:10,590 that's fairly large but it flies outside 125 00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:13,780 the telescope and it blocks the light 126 00:04:18,900 --> 00:04:17,200 from entering the telescope and allows 127 00:04:20,670 --> 00:04:18,910 the planet to come through unencumbered 128 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:20,680 so it's sort of like putting your thumb 129 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:22,630 in front of a bright light to block out 130 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:24,230 the light so you can see what around it 131 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:26,090 so yes like that and so this is just a 132 00:04:34,390 --> 00:04:30,890 very special unusually shaped thumb I'll 133 00:04:36,370 --> 00:04:34,400 say looks like a daisy with petals and 134 00:04:39,190 --> 00:04:36,380 such and that's a mathematical design 135 00:04:41,410 --> 00:04:39,200 that allows this this spot that it 136 00:04:43,420 --> 00:04:41,420 creates to be very very deep and very 137 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:43,430 dark and so think of it as a traveling 138 00:04:46,330 --> 00:04:45,170 dark spot okay well that's a really 139 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:46,340 interesting concept I mean a lot of 140 00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:47,900 times I know what you're saying about 141 00:04:52,270 --> 00:04:50,630 sometimes they have telescope tubes or 142 00:04:54,370 --> 00:04:52,280 optical assemblies we'll put something 143 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:54,380 called in a culture in the light path to 144 00:04:58,090 --> 00:04:56,330 kind of block out just a little disk 145 00:04:59,800 --> 00:04:58,100 usually it's a cone shape or something 146 00:05:01,800 --> 00:04:59,810 like that it just sort of blocks out the 147 00:05:04,210 --> 00:05:01,810 bright spot of this the bright star 148 00:05:05,410 --> 00:05:04,220 solar telescopes have these all over the 149 00:05:07,030 --> 00:05:05,420 place to block out the disk of the Sun 150 00:05:10,510 --> 00:05:07,040 so they can see the limb and also the 151 00:05:12,430 --> 00:05:10,520 solar corona so the stars because is it 152 00:05:14,620 --> 00:05:12,440 because the stars are so far away that 153 00:05:17,890 --> 00:05:14,630 the planets are I mean you can still 154 00:05:19,570 --> 00:05:17,900 resolve even at say dozens of 155 00:05:20,650 --> 00:05:19,580 light-years planets that might be an 156 00:05:23,020 --> 00:05:20,660 orbit around a star with the light 157 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:23,030 blocked yes I mean the big issue and it 158 00:05:28,930 --> 00:05:24,770 is a hard thing to do it's basically 159 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:28,940 like trying to image a firefly a few 160 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:31,130 centimeters from a searchlight so it is 161 00:05:36,430 --> 00:05:34,730 a very very difficult thing to do but 162 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:36,440 yes with a large enough telescope and 163 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:38,390 with something that could block out this 164 00:05:42,340 --> 00:05:40,010 light the plants are going to be 165 00:05:43,870 --> 00:05:42,350 observable so Steve let me get you in on 166 00:05:46,270 --> 00:05:43,880 this so have we started building it yet 167 00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:46,280 and no way it not the space version at 168 00:05:50,410 --> 00:05:48,320 least we've been we've been doing some 169 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:50,420 testing on the ground and what we're 170 00:05:55,180 --> 00:05:53,270 doing there is we're taking a light 171 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:55,190 source out to the desert we got a nice 172 00:05:58,840 --> 00:05:56,570 picture here there's a light source 173 00:06:04,120 --> 00:05:58,850 overruns head over there telescope in 174 00:06:05,470 --> 00:06:04,130 here and what we're doing is is is we're 175 00:06:08,470 --> 00:06:05,480 using this bright light source to 176 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:08,480 simulate a a star and we've got some 177 00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:10,010 other little light sources that simulate 178 00:06:14,950 --> 00:06:12,200 in the planet we put a star shade which 179 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:14,960 is you know about that big a one-percent 180 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:17,150 scale starshade something like that in 181 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:19,910 between the bright source and the and 182 00:06:24,010 --> 00:06:22,250 the telescope and and we're checking our 183 00:06:26,350 --> 00:06:24,020 imaging with that and we're showing that 184 00:06:29,140 --> 00:06:26,360 the computer models that we have for how 185 00:06:31,660 --> 00:06:29,150 the optics we'll work our are very 186 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:31,670 similar to what we're able to to collect 187 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:33,110 the images we were able to collect in 188 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:36,050 the desert ok so so we've got a 189 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:37,370 proof-of-concept essentially 190 00:06:42,460 --> 00:06:40,490 already built yes absolutely so and one 191 00:06:44,110 --> 00:06:42,470 of the things with the sausage was as 192 00:06:46,750 --> 00:06:44,120 Ron mentioned the the very specific 193 00:06:49,390 --> 00:06:46,760 shape of it and we're trying to suppress 194 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:49,400 the Starlight to 10 to the 10 and that's 195 00:06:53,170 --> 00:06:51,290 a really difficult number ten to the six 196 00:06:55,719 --> 00:06:53,180 would be relatively easy 10 to the 10 197 00:06:57,790 --> 00:06:55,729 gets really quite hard so there's a lot 198 00:06:59,980 --> 00:06:57,800 of questions about whether the model is 199 00:07:02,379 --> 00:06:59,990 is going to be accurate the optical 200 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:02,389 model is accurate at that level so and 201 00:07:06,790 --> 00:07:04,250 there's some possible different shapes 202 00:07:08,260 --> 00:07:06,800 you can use there's the issue of when 203 00:07:10,629 --> 00:07:08,270 you build this thing and you fly it in 204 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:10,639 space can you control the shape to the 205 00:07:14,170 --> 00:07:12,770 the accuracy you need so we've been 206 00:07:15,670 --> 00:07:14,180 doing some testing with what happens 207 00:07:18,159 --> 00:07:15,680 when the the shape isn't quite perfect 208 00:07:20,620 --> 00:07:18,169 and and you start distorting the shape 209 00:07:22,659 --> 00:07:20,630 does that affect the results are you're 210 00:07:24,370 --> 00:07:22,669 going to be able to get so you tested 211 00:07:25,779 --> 00:07:24,380 this on the ground and you said it works 212 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:25,789 were you able to see anything and you 213 00:07:29,710 --> 00:07:28,280 pee on any planet so when we're testing 214 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:29,720 on the ground we're looking at these 215 00:07:36,820 --> 00:07:33,650 LEDs and so what we were simulating a 216 00:07:40,270 --> 00:07:36,830 system it's not it's not it's not a it's 217 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:40,280 not quite the right scale for what you 218 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:41,930 would be looking at yeah I misunderstood 219 00:07:45,219 --> 00:07:43,250 what you said about the test day okay 220 00:07:47,950 --> 00:07:45,229 your door you were using LEDs to do that 221 00:07:50,170 --> 00:07:47,960 not actual stars correct yeah yeah so 222 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:50,180 okay so I didn't hear that part 223 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:52,910 certainly we saw the LEDs like we 224 00:07:57,100 --> 00:07:55,130 expected to see them so the whole point 225 00:07:58,300 --> 00:07:57,110 here is because this is a new concept 226 00:08:00,070 --> 00:07:58,310 this is something that hasn't been 227 00:08:02,110 --> 00:08:00,080 around for generations it's something 228 00:08:04,210 --> 00:08:02,120 that really came into being on two 229 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:04,220 thousand four and five there's a lot of 230 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:06,710 basic understanding that we need until 231 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:09,410 these tests in the desert that Steve 232 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:11,440 talked about are essential to start 233 00:08:16,210 --> 00:08:14,630 saying if we model this this is what we 234 00:08:17,980 --> 00:08:16,220 think we should see and then we go out 235 00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:17,990 and empirically see is this what we see 236 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:19,520 and then through those sorts of things 237 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:21,260 like Steve said with putting in 238 00:08:25,870 --> 00:08:24,110 artificial distortions if I can put in a 239 00:08:27,820 --> 00:08:25,880 distortion and predict what I'm going to 240 00:08:29,589 --> 00:08:27,830 see then obviously I know more about 241 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:29,599 this and if I put in something I get 242 00:08:33,310 --> 00:08:31,250 something completely different and so 243 00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:33,320 this is a very methodical process to go 244 00:08:38,469 --> 00:08:35,599 through and understand this optic 245 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:38,479 because it is an optic and how performs 246 00:08:42,339 --> 00:08:40,370 what are the things that are tight 247 00:08:44,380 --> 00:08:42,349 tolerances what are the things that are 248 00:08:46,660 --> 00:08:44,390 not very much oh and here we go this is 249 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:46,670 this is we have a model thank you this 250 00:08:51,430 --> 00:08:49,160 is what they look like in general 251 00:08:53,619 --> 00:08:51,440 as I was going to just reiterate one 252 00:08:55,329 --> 00:08:53,629 thing as Steve will show you in a second 253 00:08:57,009 --> 00:08:55,339 describe the starshade I want to go back 254 00:08:58,660 --> 00:08:57,019 to what the size of the problem really 255 00:09:00,509 --> 00:08:58,670 is what are we trying to do right you're 256 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:00,519 trying to find an earth-like planet 257 00:09:06,069 --> 00:09:04,250 around a star okay and the planet is 10 258 00:09:08,499 --> 00:09:06,079 billion times fainter than the parent 259 00:09:11,769 --> 00:09:08,509 star so you're putting your your thumb 260 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:11,779 up there on top of it so in virtually on 261 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:13,370 top of its of the very little separation 262 00:09:17,470 --> 00:09:15,470 so that's the heart of problem and so 263 00:09:20,619 --> 00:09:17,480 the shape is actually very meaningful so 264 00:09:22,119 --> 00:09:20,629 I'm gonna it's very pretty I like it 265 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:22,129 yeah but it's all black you need to add 266 00:09:27,460 --> 00:09:23,810 colors and maybe a little smiley face on 267 00:09:28,389 --> 00:09:27,470 there and that'll be all right tell us a 268 00:09:30,699 --> 00:09:28,399 little bit more about what you hold out 269 00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:30,709 okay so what I'm holding here is in one 270 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:32,720 of the samples that we we test in the 271 00:09:36,910 --> 00:09:34,250 desert and and and as I mentioned 272 00:09:38,949 --> 00:09:36,920 earlier this shape is is critical to 273 00:09:41,769 --> 00:09:38,959 reach in that kind of suppression that 274 00:09:44,769 --> 00:09:41,779 we were looking for and we also have 275 00:09:45,939 --> 00:09:44,779 just as shown how it worked tested with 276 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:45,949 a dish because it's about the same size 277 00:09:50,170 --> 00:09:48,110 but for completely circular and what we 278 00:09:53,019 --> 00:09:50,180 see with the disc is that you get as we 279 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:53,029 expected a bright ring of diffracted 280 00:09:57,790 --> 00:09:55,610 light from the from the main LED coming 281 00:09:59,259 --> 00:09:57,800 around there and that's just natural 282 00:10:00,309 --> 00:09:59,269 behavior of light going through anything 283 00:10:01,870 --> 00:10:00,319 what tell us a little bit about a 284 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:01,880 fraction so different' is the way that 285 00:10:06,730 --> 00:10:04,610 land light bends around or in fact any 286 00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:06,740 wave then bends around the surface in 287 00:10:11,410 --> 00:10:08,240 this case we're talking about light and 288 00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:11,420 when we've got a surface that is is at 289 00:10:15,069 --> 00:10:12,920 right angles to the light beam then it 290 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:15,079 will bend around it what's going on here 291 00:10:18,999 --> 00:10:16,610 is we're getting that same diffraction 292 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:19,009 but with this this petal shape we're 293 00:10:24,069 --> 00:10:22,370 canceling out the diffraction rings so 294 00:10:27,220 --> 00:10:24,079 that we wind up with a much a little 295 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:27,230 lower so that we can sit where we get 296 00:10:31,569 --> 00:10:28,910 we're canceling out the diffraction from 297 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:31,579 different radii along a pebble so that 298 00:10:35,530 --> 00:10:33,529 we get a much darker spot than we would 299 00:10:36,999 --> 00:10:35,540 with just a disc that was out in front 300 00:10:38,290 --> 00:10:37,009 of so it was just one of the beauties of 301 00:10:40,829 --> 00:10:38,300 science that it turned out to be the 302 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:40,839 shape it did that that's exactly right 303 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:43,610 okay so triangle shape yeah so the 304 00:10:45,699 --> 00:10:44,630 differentially she's talking about if 305 00:10:47,650 --> 00:10:45,709 you ever look at a star through a 306 00:10:50,019 --> 00:10:47,660 telescope and the secondary mirror 307 00:10:51,309 --> 00:10:50,029 sometimes you can see little rings that 308 00:10:52,389 --> 00:10:51,319 they come around and that's what they're 309 00:10:54,549 --> 00:10:52,399 talking about canceling it now and that 310 00:10:56,530 --> 00:10:54,559 can prevent you from seeing really close 311 00:10:58,179 --> 00:10:56,540 planets right near the star so you want 312 00:11:00,879 --> 00:10:58,189 to get rid of that as much as you can so 313 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:00,889 run why space can we do this on the 314 00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,290 ground I mean the problem will start 315 00:11:07,420 --> 00:11:05,360 is that while it's a very efficient way 316 00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:07,430 to operate it's a very large baseline 317 00:11:11,650 --> 00:11:10,399 and so even in our desert test what do 318 00:11:14,530 --> 00:11:11,660 you mean long long baseline I the 319 00:11:17,889 --> 00:11:14,540 distance between other telescope and the 320 00:11:20,199 --> 00:11:17,899 starshade has to be very large compared 321 00:11:22,180 --> 00:11:20,209 to the size of either so for example in 322 00:11:24,189 --> 00:11:22,190 the desert it's a couple of kilometers 323 00:11:26,110 --> 00:11:24,199 different distance between the starshade 324 00:11:27,579 --> 00:11:26,120 and the camera so this was sitting a 325 00:11:29,199 --> 00:11:27,589 couple of kilometers away from the 326 00:11:30,579 --> 00:11:29,209 telescope you were testing right and so 327 00:11:32,110 --> 00:11:30,589 in space because we're dealing with 328 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:32,120 bigger telescopes and bigger things 329 00:11:38,170 --> 00:11:34,970 you're talking about a 30 to 60 meter 330 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:38,180 diameter starshade tens of thousands of 331 00:11:42,189 --> 00:11:40,250 kilometers in front of a telescope so 332 00:11:44,650 --> 00:11:42,199 it's a very long arm that is holding 333 00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:44,660 that thumb and so they're they're 334 00:11:49,780 --> 00:11:46,670 independent they're they're traveling 335 00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,790 together so its formation flying but one 336 00:11:53,499 --> 00:11:51,440 that's relatively straightforward and 337 00:11:56,259 --> 00:11:53,509 that's what allows us to have the really 338 00:11:59,050 --> 00:11:56,269 small spot so we can cover the star but 339 00:12:00,999 --> 00:11:59,060 not cover the planet ok so we haven't 340 00:12:03,069 --> 00:12:01,009 you've tested it but we haven't actually 341 00:12:05,769 --> 00:12:03,079 started building this yet correct known 342 00:12:08,290 --> 00:12:05,779 as a space mission no I mean it's pretty 343 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:08,300 critical that we know exactly how this 344 00:12:14,439 --> 00:12:10,870 works before we go spending you know 345 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:14,449 government money so this is but we have 346 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:16,610 begun testing components because in 347 00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:18,529 parallel to the desert test with their 348 00:12:23,170 --> 00:12:21,440 testing the optics are we and people at 349 00:12:25,329 --> 00:12:23,180 JPL and other people in community are 350 00:12:27,129 --> 00:12:25,339 testing other aspects of this how would 351 00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,139 we build it how would we deploy it what 352 00:12:31,629 --> 00:12:29,360 materials should be involved so those 353 00:12:33,220 --> 00:12:31,639 are going on in parallel they're not at 354 00:12:36,430 --> 00:12:33,230 the level right now where we would be 355 00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:36,440 using space equivalent hardware but it's 356 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:38,000 the first stages like with the optical 357 00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:41,690 testing of testing how in some number of 358 00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:43,550 years will we actually build this to fly 359 00:12:48,879 --> 00:12:45,920 in space I wanted to go back to what 360 00:12:52,059 --> 00:12:48,889 something that Rhonda said which is not 361 00:12:56,050 --> 00:12:52,069 only the distance between here is 362 00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,060 telephone that's right that's right so 363 00:12:59,290 --> 00:12:57,920 not only the distance between the 364 00:13:01,120 --> 00:12:59,300 telescope in the starshade has to be 365 00:13:02,319 --> 00:13:01,130 over 10,000 you know thousands of 366 00:13:04,059 --> 00:13:02,329 kilometers to ten thousands of 367 00:13:05,740 --> 00:13:04,069 kilometers but I should they shape the 368 00:13:07,329 --> 00:13:05,750 size of the starshade is also relevant 369 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:07,339 you know so you know this is not these 370 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:09,110 are not this is a clear model it's very 371 00:13:14,439 --> 00:13:11,810 small so maybe you know both you and Stu 372 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:14,449 can tell give us an idea of how big you 373 00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:16,010 know with the task of B it was sorry 374 00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:17,190 with the starshade have to 375 00:13:22,580 --> 00:13:20,160 in order to act as this famous thumb 376 00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:22,590 yeah and also this is this is kind of 377 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:24,270 solid material you're not going to make 378 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:25,620 it out of solid material I don't think 379 00:13:30,820 --> 00:13:28,890 either right so now i'm at the right now 380 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:30,830 we're looking at is something that is a 381 00:13:35,810 --> 00:13:33,990 membrane suspended between some sort of 382 00:13:36,830 --> 00:13:35,820 structure but that's part of what we're 383 00:13:38,950 --> 00:13:36,840 looking at is how we would go about 384 00:13:41,660 --> 00:13:38,960 doing this anything like the jwst 385 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:41,670 essentials something very similar be sun 386 00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:42,810 shield and what are the one of the 387 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:44,460 interesting aspects of this is that one 388 00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:45,720 of the cast we will be doing over the 389 00:13:49,820 --> 00:13:47,760 next couple years is if i have a 390 00:13:50,990 --> 00:13:49,830 membrane it's really light and therefore 391 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:51,000 this thing doesn't have to weigh as much 392 00:13:57,170 --> 00:13:54,570 but um how transparent is it because 393 00:13:58,760 --> 00:13:57,180 even though you know if i look at a 394 00:14:01,460 --> 00:13:58,770 piece of mylar or whatever they would 395 00:14:03,770 --> 00:14:01,470 use it seems opaque as scheme said we're 396 00:14:06,770 --> 00:14:03,780 talking about one part in 10 to the 10 397 00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:06,780 billion oh no we need to make sure that 398 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:08,340 it's actually opaque to that level so 399 00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:09,690 there's lots of interesting tests are 400 00:14:16,850 --> 00:14:15,660 going on okay so um Alberto I ok so so 401 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:16,860 let's go back to the size of this so 402 00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:17,760 tell us a little about how big these 403 00:14:21,740 --> 00:14:19,740 things going to be so in the space 404 00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:21,750 application we've looked at everything 405 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:24,300 from 30 metres up to about 80 meters and 406 00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:26,370 it depends very much on the telescope 407 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:27,920 that you're working with the other 408 00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:30,150 obvious problem that you've got is there 409 00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:31,470 aren't many photons coming from the 410 00:14:35,540 --> 00:14:33,240 planets that we're trying to observe so 411 00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:35,550 you really want to get a large 412 00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:37,230 collecting area you make the telescope 413 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:38,790 larger than the starshade has to be 414 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:41,130 larger to be able to give the dark spot 415 00:14:48,380 --> 00:14:43,770 that surrounds the entire optics of your 416 00:14:51,170 --> 00:14:48,390 telescope so there's lots of discussion 417 00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:51,180 here / over the last weekend and I'm 418 00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:52,500 sure there will be further discussion 419 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:55,140 about the next generation telescope the 420 00:14:58,460 --> 00:14:56,910 next next generation tal scale the one 421 00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:58,470 after James Webb and how big that will 422 00:15:03,079 --> 00:15:01,440 be if you've got a 8 meter optic or 10 423 00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,089 millimeter optic then the starshade 424 00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:06,240 should be around 80 meters diameter to 425 00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:09,060 be 80 meters 10 spot yeah we're going to 426 00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:10,320 have a hangout on the future of space 427 00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:12,000 telescopes to later this week I think so 428 00:15:15,890 --> 00:15:13,230 we'll how about we'll talk about that as 429 00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:15,900 well so does the telescope have to be 430 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:18,390 built to your building the starshade now 431 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:19,290 you're gonna be able to build in 432 00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:20,970 different sizes depending on you said 433 00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:22,740 the telescope that is used with but if I 434 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:24,270 want to use a star shade on my telescope 435 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:26,010 do I have to design my telescope to 436 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:27,630 specifically be compatible with this is 437 00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:29,490 a require for example a certain field of 438 00:15:32,410 --> 00:15:30,380 view 439 00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:32,420 no really no I mean it will work with 440 00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:35,600 practically any generic Space Telescope 441 00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:36,710 because you know there's lots of those 442 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:39,320 lying around but I'm gonna launch a CA 443 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:41,210 that's what I'm gonna do you see a dura 444 00:15:46,270 --> 00:15:44,210 lx200 yeah yeah so it should work with 445 00:15:48,730 --> 00:15:46,280 practically any space telescope the only 446 00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:48,740 caveat to that is you need to know where 447 00:15:51,490 --> 00:15:50,060 the two things are you need to know 448 00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,500 where your star shape you've got to line 449 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:53,600 them up yeah you're gonna line them up 450 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:55,010 you're gonna know where your / it 451 00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:56,210 spacecraft is you're going to know where 452 00:16:01,210 --> 00:15:58,730 your telescope is so it's it the benefit 453 00:16:03,070 --> 00:16:01,220 is having a beacon on on your telescope 454 00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:03,080 so that you can you can detect where you 455 00:16:05,950 --> 00:16:04,880 are relative to each other oh that's an 456 00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:05,960 interesting point so how would that work 457 00:16:10,780 --> 00:16:08,780 Ronnie you got okay aspect of this is 458 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:10,790 that um as I said this is a traveling 459 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:12,980 bare spot that dark spot has a diameter 460 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:15,530 so you also have to match your telescope 461 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:17,570 that it needs to sit inside the dark 462 00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:19,250 spot we aren't really care where in the 463 00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:21,920 dark spot but if I have a dark spot that 464 00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:24,710 is let's say five meters across and I 465 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:26,120 have a 10-meter telescope that's not 466 00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:27,710 going to help so I do got to keep these 467 00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,790 things in mind when I build my tell 468 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:30,320 that's the only thing that it does 469 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:33,050 require is that the telescope has to fit 470 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:35,180 inside of our spot okay and adjust this 471 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:37,970 to be the size that it's needed so if 472 00:16:41,740 --> 00:16:39,890 you have a four meter telescope I can 473 00:16:43,930 --> 00:16:41,750 give you a five or six meters shadow or 474 00:16:45,610 --> 00:16:43,940 if you have a 10 meter one I can give 475 00:16:48,460 --> 00:16:45,620 you a bigger one but that's that's where 476 00:16:49,870 --> 00:16:48,470 the scaling size comes in okay so you 477 00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:49,880 said it's a movable dark spot how do I 478 00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:51,920 move this thing it operates with 479 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:54,200 propulsion more likely than not electric 480 00:17:00,700 --> 00:16:56,690 propulsion and I move it around the side 481 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:00,710 to align services yeah like what like 482 00:17:06,550 --> 00:17:03,260 Rosetta right there well I Rosetta or 483 00:17:08,260 --> 00:17:06,560 dawn and must rely so those sorts of 484 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:08,270 things so existing technology so you got 485 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:10,010 to be patient to point this thing right 486 00:17:13,090 --> 00:17:12,290 i mean if you want to you want to end 487 00:17:14,829 --> 00:17:13,100 you're going to have to somehow 488 00:17:15,939 --> 00:17:14,839 coordinate that with your telescope it's 489 00:17:18,970 --> 00:17:15,949 going to have to all be linked together 490 00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:18,980 you're going to have to write and and 491 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:21,260 you're going to need to be I want to now 492 00:17:24,939 --> 00:17:22,490 and look over here this part of this guy 493 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:24,949 is going to take a while right and we 494 00:17:28,810 --> 00:17:26,510 look at essentially for traveling 495 00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:28,820 salesman problem is that we have a bunch 496 00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,230 of stars on sky that we want to look at 497 00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:32,720 and we can go from one to the next in 498 00:17:36,910 --> 00:17:35,390 some plan and then therefore optimize 499 00:17:38,740 --> 00:17:36,920 the time the nice thing about starshade 500 00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,750 since it doesn't require any special 501 00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:40,880 anything on the telescope that in 502 00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:41,840 between those 503 00:17:45,549 --> 00:17:43,190 listening the telescope can be doing 504 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:45,559 other astrophysics so it's not one of 505 00:17:50,019 --> 00:17:47,330 these things where I'm dedicated to do 506 00:17:53,470 --> 00:17:50,029 this the throughput of the starshade is 507 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:53,480 very high so when I do finally align I 508 00:17:57,850 --> 00:17:55,970 can get my data very quickly and then 509 00:18:01,210 --> 00:17:57,860 how that move on to the next one and so 510 00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:01,220 it becomes basically how energetic of an 511 00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:04,400 ion propulsion system you have and how 512 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,140 far you are away and sort of stuff but 513 00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:08,480 what very doable and very much within 514 00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:09,919 giving you the right number of stars 515 00:18:13,779 --> 00:18:12,110 people would want to survey and that's 516 00:18:14,769 --> 00:18:13,789 awesome so see I don't know if this is 517 00:18:16,510 --> 00:18:14,779 your expertise enough I'd like to ask 518 00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:16,520 you a bit more about this ion drive key 519 00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:17,809 tell us what they're like how they work 520 00:18:24,820 --> 00:18:21,230 and so not my area of expertise but and 521 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:24,830 you you are basically driving xenon gas 522 00:18:28,539 --> 00:18:26,750 out of the back of the thrusters and on 523 00:18:31,630 --> 00:18:28,549 Zenon depending on where which side is 524 00:18:35,950 --> 00:18:31,640 Atlantic Zenon Zenon Zenon alcoholism 525 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:35,960 and and and that's you using electric 526 00:18:39,460 --> 00:18:37,460 propulsion to do that so you're 527 00:18:43,299 --> 00:18:39,470 basically charging the particles and 528 00:18:46,029 --> 00:18:43,309 using the charge between two plates to 529 00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:46,039 pull the the Zen on out the back of the 530 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:48,470 thruster so is that the limiting factor 531 00:18:51,610 --> 00:18:49,850 of the lifetime of the starshade is how 532 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:51,620 much gas you put in it that would 533 00:18:57,130 --> 00:18:54,970 definitely be part of it and it they 534 00:19:00,159 --> 00:18:57,140 because you were only able to look at 535 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:00,169 planets and you've got a limit of how 536 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:01,850 close you can look to the start because 537 00:19:05,169 --> 00:19:03,289 you know that's the size of the dark 538 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:05,179 spot and we're talking of the order of 539 00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:07,130 100 milli arcseconds something like that 540 00:19:10,899 --> 00:19:08,990 maybe 60 milliseconds something like 541 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:10,909 that so what that means is when you're 542 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:13,730 looking for habitable zones you're only 543 00:19:18,639 --> 00:19:15,710 able to look at the nearest 200 or so 544 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:18,649 stars may be 500 stars because once you 545 00:19:22,659 --> 00:19:19,970 start looking at stars that are further 546 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:22,669 away than that then then the annular 547 00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:24,230 separation between the habitable zone 548 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:27,350 and the and the and the star starts to 549 00:19:32,919 --> 00:19:30,770 be too small so yes it does have a 550 00:19:35,380 --> 00:19:32,929 lifetime at that lifetime is is based on 551 00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:35,390 fuel but your point would be that to 552 00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:37,070 design a mission that can in its 553 00:19:41,380 --> 00:19:39,289 lifetime get round the stars that that 554 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:41,390 you give you the best chance of finding 555 00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,870 you know a earth-like planet in you know 556 00:19:50,529 --> 00:19:46,880 in our neighborhood ok he said habitable 557 00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:50,539 zone hey how little zone this is what 558 00:19:56,060 --> 00:19:52,500 has become sort of the 559 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:56,070 standard measure and it's it's consider 560 00:20:00,830 --> 00:19:58,410 we believe that water is essential for 561 00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:00,840 life so the habitable zone is basically 562 00:20:05,030 --> 00:20:03,060 the area around a star where liquid 563 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:05,040 water can exist on the surface of a 564 00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:07,650 planet so if you go too close to the Sun 565 00:20:12,050 --> 00:20:10,110 it gets real hot you evaporate all your 566 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:12,060 water so you get things like a Mercury 567 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:13,980 and Venus if you go too far from the Sun 568 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:16,650 you get ice freezing of water freezing 569 00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:18,810 out and you get Mars and then Jupiter 570 00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:20,760 and beyond so there is a narrow region 571 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:23,400 around every star in which the 572 00:20:26,570 --> 00:20:24,930 temperature is just right so it's also 573 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:26,580 called the Goldilocks zone where it's 574 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:29,070 not unfortunately it's not too cold it's 575 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:31,050 just right and so that's what people are 576 00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:32,610 looking for yes and we've talked at 577 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:34,020 length about why liquid water is 578 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:35,610 important you may not think it's all 579 00:20:38,810 --> 00:20:37,050 that big a deal but liquid water is 580 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:38,820 where we start because we know at least 581 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:40,410 in the one spot where we know there is 582 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:43,110 life it is vital so he looks may as well 583 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:44,490 look for what we know works so that's 584 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:46,170 why liquid liquid water has been so 585 00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:47,760 important in our search for life ishan 586 00:20:54,650 --> 00:20:49,440 says he's got some social media stuff 587 00:21:01,010 --> 00:20:54,660 going to tell us Daniel and Sato of 588 00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:01,020 Google+ wants to know how do you get the 589 00:21:04,550 --> 00:21:03,540 starshade and the telescope to orbit in 590 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:04,560 sync when they're thousands of 591 00:21:09,290 --> 00:21:06,930 kilometers apart who wants that one and 592 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:09,300 great question and you can't do that 593 00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:11,850 around us so your your your options are 594 00:21:16,340 --> 00:21:13,950 that you go to l2 which is where the 595 00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:16,350 James Webb Space Telescope is going a 596 00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:18,480 lot of other things it seems yeah and a 597 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:20,640 lot of other things so then it so L 2 598 00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:24,720 that is a gravitational saddle that is 599 00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:27,180 in line with the the Sun and the earth 600 00:21:31,970 --> 00:21:29,340 and it's about a million miles beyond 601 00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,980 the Earth from the Sun and the gravity 602 00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:33,840 area there is pretty flat and so you 603 00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:37,260 your gravity difference between what's 604 00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:39,150 affecting the starshade spacecraft and 605 00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:41,430 your telescope spacecraft is very minor 606 00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:44,190 so you don't need that much fuel to hold 607 00:21:48,110 --> 00:21:46,380 the position between the two there's 608 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:48,120 other options as well earth trailing 609 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:49,770 orbits or if leading orbits would also 610 00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:52,320 give you a way of doing that really good 611 00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:53,460 question I was going to ask him myself 612 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:54,720 but you got to it you got another winner 613 00:21:58,340 --> 00:21:57,090 is that it for now okay so keep keep on 614 00:22:02,900 --> 00:21:58,350 coming guys we're monitoring we got it 615 00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:02,910 we got you covered so I guess I get so 616 00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:05,910 the but we're in the planning stages now 617 00:22:08,590 --> 00:22:06,320 is 618 00:22:10,299 --> 00:22:08,600 they're some kind of and a presumably 619 00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,309 Northrop Grumman is building this thing 620 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:12,559 for space at some point is there 621 00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,090 anything we're waiting on to get make 622 00:22:20,289 --> 00:22:17,200 further progress on this or is it is it 623 00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:20,299 I guess it's what what's what are we 624 00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:22,190 ready to move to the next phase we are 625 00:22:27,009 --> 00:22:24,740 moving to the next phase so the desert 626 00:22:29,129 --> 00:22:27,019 tests that we are in the process of 627 00:22:32,169 --> 00:22:29,139 doing and they're still more to do are 628 00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:32,179 establishing the optical properties so 629 00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,860 it's under we're understanding now what 630 00:22:37,659 --> 00:22:35,120 our tolerances are we're getting 631 00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:37,669 empirical measures of theoretical 632 00:22:41,950 --> 00:22:39,980 calculations so we're combining that so 633 00:22:44,110 --> 00:22:41,960 we understand how it works would it 634 00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:44,120 what's needed to make it work what kind 635 00:22:47,019 --> 00:22:45,500 of tolerances we need on the thing that 636 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:47,029 we're going to build as i said in 637 00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,529 parallel we're also trying to look at 638 00:22:52,930 --> 00:22:50,480 how we would deploy this how we would 639 00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,940 fit this into a fairing so all those are 640 00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,559 starting to converge and so over the 641 00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:56,960 next few years we will learn more about 642 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:00,320 this our understanding will grow and at 643 00:23:03,999 --> 00:23:01,730 some point hopefully within a couple of 644 00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:04,009 years we will be ready to do some sort 645 00:23:10,409 --> 00:23:06,529 of demo test or something of that nature 646 00:23:12,999 --> 00:23:10,419 to go to the next stage so this is a 647 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:13,009 broad reach project right now because 648 00:23:17,470 --> 00:23:15,230 we're looking at how it works optically 649 00:23:19,330 --> 00:23:17,480 how it works mechanically what are some 650 00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:19,340 of the issues as for the question from 651 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:21,590 there what orbits we should go into what 652 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:23,570 those constraints put on things so all 653 00:23:27,399 --> 00:23:25,730 those things need to be looked at and so 654 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:27,409 it's a lot of work to do but it's coming 655 00:23:30,369 --> 00:23:28,970 together very nicely and we would hope 656 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:30,379 in a few years to be ready to start 657 00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:33,289 looking at a space-based at least test 658 00:23:37,180 --> 00:23:35,750 if not the demo okay so in a couple 659 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:37,190 years we might be testing anybody want 660 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:38,450 to prognosticate when this thing is 661 00:23:43,950 --> 00:23:40,850 going to be in norway in orbit come on 662 00:23:46,210 --> 00:23:43,960 that's really up to NASA and the 663 00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:46,220 halliwell what's this is your good 664 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:47,990 support for NASA on this project yes 665 00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:49,850 very good and so nASA has been very 666 00:23:54,369 --> 00:23:51,950 helpful from the very early days on 667 00:23:56,919 --> 00:23:54,379 NASA's been involved in the discussion 668 00:23:59,139 --> 00:23:56,929 are the some of the demonstrations of 669 00:24:01,869 --> 00:23:59,149 how the deployment works were done at 670 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:01,879 JPL with Norfolk support stuff so NASA 671 00:24:06,490 --> 00:24:04,220 is very key to this very important and 672 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:06,500 supplied both great intellectual 673 00:24:09,730 --> 00:24:08,330 property but also the resources and the 674 00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:09,740 facilities to do some of the stuff the 675 00:24:14,019 --> 00:24:12,230 the starshade itself doesn't seem like 676 00:24:15,399 --> 00:24:14,029 it's that expensive to make I mean 677 00:24:16,779 --> 00:24:15,409 compared to some of the other things 678 00:24:18,820 --> 00:24:16,789 that go up into space this might be a 679 00:24:19,389 --> 00:24:18,830 pretty economical thing to build right 680 00:24:20,889 --> 00:24:19,399 well 681 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:20,899 a lot of that depends on what we find 682 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:22,369 over the next few years I mean we are 683 00:24:26,349 --> 00:24:24,440 looking at tolerances and other sorts of 684 00:24:28,719 --> 00:24:26,359 things we hope it will be very 685 00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,729 affordable at this stage it's probably a 686 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:30,799 little early to say absolutely but you 687 00:24:34,419 --> 00:24:32,450 know yes indeed well we think this is a 688 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:34,429 very good way to go forward we think 689 00:24:38,619 --> 00:24:36,769 this may be one of the better ways to 690 00:24:42,369 --> 00:24:38,629 find out if there's life outside the 691 00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:42,379 solar system no oh okay he took the 692 00:24:45,999 --> 00:24:43,940 words out of your mouth did he okay cool 693 00:24:47,649 --> 00:24:46,009 well I'd say to me what worries me are 694 00:24:49,629 --> 00:24:47,659 the space telescopes themselves I don't 695 00:24:51,639 --> 00:24:49,639 know of a lot other than say W first and 696 00:24:52,899 --> 00:24:51,649 maybe something else down the road we 697 00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:52,909 got to start now thinking about the 698 00:24:56,469 --> 00:24:54,440 you're building star shades but we got 699 00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,479 telescopes to build to use these things 700 00:24:59,889 --> 00:24:57,919 that kind of worries me a little bit i'm 701 00:25:01,539 --> 00:24:59,899 not sure i guess the one other aspect of 702 00:25:03,219 --> 00:25:01,549 this than the other big advantage of a 703 00:25:05,889 --> 00:25:03,229 star shade is since it's a an 704 00:25:07,899 --> 00:25:05,899 independent operator it's an external 705 00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:07,909 occult for an external coronagraph it 706 00:25:11,529 --> 00:25:09,049 can actually operate with multiple 707 00:25:13,690 --> 00:25:11,539 telescopes so if we had three or four 708 00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:13,700 telescopes at l2 right now in principle 709 00:25:18,579 --> 00:25:15,440 we could operate a star shape with each 710 00:25:20,619 --> 00:25:18,589 one so you know one could look at using 711 00:25:22,269 --> 00:25:20,629 telescope number one to do one thing and 712 00:25:24,099 --> 00:25:22,279 tell us what number two to do nothing we 713 00:25:26,649 --> 00:25:24,109 just need to then move the starshade in 714 00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:26,659 line with Ulster well what about jada 715 00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:31,190 beastie certainly one good in principle 716 00:25:36,009 --> 00:25:33,289 do that as Steve said I mean the one big 717 00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:36,019 issue with this is the easiest way to 718 00:25:39,849 --> 00:25:38,089 align the choose to put a beacon on on 719 00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:39,859 the telescope so I know where the 720 00:25:43,479 --> 00:25:42,080 telescope is or if I'm a star shade and 721 00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:43,489 it's the telescope knows what the 722 00:25:46,959 --> 00:25:45,529 starshade is that both those there then 723 00:25:48,639 --> 00:25:46,969 it becomes really easy right now there's 724 00:25:50,999 --> 00:25:48,649 no beach in on Jane flow Alberta you 725 00:25:53,169 --> 00:25:51,009 need to add that as a feature on JWST 726 00:25:54,369 --> 00:25:53,179 yeah that would be interesting feature I 727 00:25:57,099 --> 00:25:54,379 don't think is in the plan but it will 728 00:26:00,669 --> 00:25:57,109 be an interesting feature so but we want 729 00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:00,679 to see I mean it's generally we look at 730 00:26:03,249 --> 00:26:01,849 yeah but remember this is a piece was 731 00:26:05,289 --> 00:26:03,259 built to look at spectra for exoplanets 732 00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:05,299 rye and so I think it's a kind of 733 00:26:08,169 --> 00:26:06,529 different kind of absorbing right that 734 00:26:09,940 --> 00:26:08,179 you want to do in terms of in terms of 735 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:09,950 what you want to get out right and sorry 736 00:26:14,139 --> 00:26:12,049 l talks is not going to look at you know 737 00:26:15,879 --> 00:26:14,149 I don't generously denial resolution to 738 00:26:16,930 --> 00:26:15,889 look at earth-sized planets rice you're 739 00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:16,940 going to look at hot Jupiters for 740 00:26:20,899 --> 00:26:18,950 example right so ishan do you have 741 00:26:26,899 --> 00:26:20,909 anything for me 742 00:26:29,089 --> 00:26:26,909 golf addict 75 youtube how small of a 743 00:26:31,849 --> 00:26:29,099 planet will be able to image who wants 744 00:26:33,979 --> 00:26:31,859 that one and the issue is that's 745 00:26:35,539 --> 00:26:33,989 depending on how big of a telescope as 746 00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:35,549 the resolving power of the telescope 747 00:26:41,149 --> 00:26:37,950 primary and how I'm these planets are 748 00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:41,159 faint so but with a big telescope and a 749 00:26:44,419 --> 00:26:42,720 suitable starshade one should be able to 750 00:26:47,389 --> 00:26:44,429 image earth or smaller planets so 751 00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:47,399 earth-sized are smaller and but you are 752 00:26:51,409 --> 00:26:49,049 limited by how close you can get correct 753 00:26:54,139 --> 00:26:51,419 a pen that's correct so yeah if you 754 00:26:56,779 --> 00:26:54,149 there's a in a working angle 65 million 755 00:26:58,759 --> 00:26:56,789 seconds probably about right and so and 756 00:27:01,310 --> 00:26:58,769 then it depends your Goldilocks zone 757 00:27:03,019 --> 00:27:01,320 depends on the brightness of the star 758 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:03,029 you know the type of star you're looking 759 00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:05,369 at so I certainly on some of them like 760 00:27:10,820 --> 00:27:07,950 the M Dwarfs that area may be too far in 761 00:27:13,219 --> 00:27:10,830 for a star shade to to be able to work 762 00:27:15,710 --> 00:27:13,229 but stars that are like our own star 763 00:27:17,389 --> 00:27:15,720 then then yeah absolutely there's 200 764 00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:17,399 plus targets that we could go after with 765 00:27:22,369 --> 00:27:20,700 this okay i just want and you know that 766 00:27:23,779 --> 00:27:22,379 there's a lot of interest from NASA from 767 00:27:25,999 --> 00:27:23,789 lots of other folks to actually look at 768 00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:26,009 planet that size right the have water in 769 00:27:29,419 --> 00:27:27,809 the Goldilocks zone so i think is not a 770 00:27:31,399 --> 00:27:29,429 surprising answer that we want to aim 771 00:27:32,539 --> 00:27:31,409 you know for a 10 to 12 meter telescope 772 00:27:34,190 --> 00:27:32,549 for example in the future of the 773 00:27:37,639 --> 00:27:34,200 jeddah-based e to those kind of planets 774 00:27:39,499 --> 00:27:37,649 right anything else you Sean okay so I 775 00:27:40,639 --> 00:27:39,509 want to get to a little bit about so I'm 776 00:27:41,659 --> 00:27:40,649 gonna go that's a little bit about 777 00:27:43,009 --> 00:27:41,669 starshade I want to thank you guys for 778 00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:43,019 giving us an update on that but I want 779 00:27:46,099 --> 00:27:43,919 to talk a little bit about Northrop 780 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:46,109 Grumman and why you guys are doing this 781 00:27:49,879 --> 00:27:47,369 and we were talking to him last night 782 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:49,889 Ron about how early career scientists 783 00:27:54,739 --> 00:27:51,840 when they're coming out of graduate 784 00:27:55,580 --> 00:27:54,749 school and maybe going into postdoc we 785 00:27:57,769 --> 00:27:55,590 were talking about how what how 786 00:27:59,389 --> 00:27:57,779 competitive that is but actually there's 787 00:28:01,159 --> 00:27:59,399 other career paths you've both chosen 788 00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:01,169 industry or at least you're working at 789 00:28:04,159 --> 00:28:02,849 northrop grumman can you talk a little 790 00:28:06,019 --> 00:28:04,169 bit about the opportunities that might 791 00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:06,029 be available to younger people and I'm 792 00:28:10,369 --> 00:28:07,320 gonna let Steve go first in an ID code 793 00:28:11,779 --> 00:28:10,379 are you okay I mean just maybe the ideas 794 00:28:14,029 --> 00:28:11,789 i think to let people know that is it 795 00:28:17,089 --> 00:28:14,039 not always about academia no absolutely 796 00:28:19,489 --> 00:28:17,099 not and our our team the team that said 797 00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:19,499 that works for wrong I believe we've got 798 00:28:26,779 --> 00:28:23,190 what four for astronomy PhDs on the team 799 00:28:28,869 --> 00:28:26,789 and Alberto's one right you got an abuse 800 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:28,879 running they all you got on their team 801 00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:31,850 that was revoked right 802 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:33,860 yeah so I mean that doesn't mean you're 803 00:28:38,650 --> 00:28:36,049 necessarily doing astronomy you're doing 804 00:28:40,659 --> 00:28:38,660 engineering or interface to to a 805 00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,669 customer like James Webb obviously the 806 00:28:44,830 --> 00:28:42,320 for James Webb there are hundreds of 807 00:28:46,630 --> 00:28:44,840 scientists who are the customers for the 808 00:28:48,850 --> 00:28:46,640 James Webb Space Telescope so and 809 00:28:50,770 --> 00:28:48,860 something that that astronomers working 810 00:28:52,779 --> 00:28:50,780 at Northrop Grumman have done is is be 811 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:52,789 the interface to those people speak the 812 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:55,160 science language and learn a little bit 813 00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:56,450 of engineering and speak to the 814 00:29:01,539 --> 00:28:59,120 engineers to and be that bridge so that 815 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:01,549 that us as engineers can understand 816 00:29:06,419 --> 00:29:04,370 properly what we're trying to do so how 817 00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:06,429 would it compare do you think Ron with 818 00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:10,070 with academia versus working in a 819 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:12,289 company well it turns out i can give you 820 00:29:16,510 --> 00:29:13,970 a unique perspective on that I ask you 821 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:16,520 that ah the first third of my career I 822 00:29:22,180 --> 00:29:19,130 was an academic you know doing basic 823 00:29:23,710 --> 00:29:22,190 research publishing papers I then joined 824 00:29:25,270 --> 00:29:23,720 NASA and in the middle third of my 825 00:29:26,110 --> 00:29:25,280 career I was a NASA civil servant 826 00:29:29,649 --> 00:29:26,120 working at the Goddard Space Flight 827 00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:29,659 Center and then I got a call one day 828 00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:31,280 from someone saying you ever think of 829 00:29:34,779 --> 00:29:33,230 working in industry and so the last 830 00:29:36,909 --> 00:29:34,789 third of my career is now in industry 831 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:36,919 and so I think one of the things that 832 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:39,320 that I think star shades illustrates is 833 00:29:45,159 --> 00:29:43,730 the ability of comp i combined science 834 00:29:47,020 --> 00:29:45,169 and engineering team to sell the 835 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:47,030 problems one of the things that we went 836 00:29:52,570 --> 00:29:50,330 from over 10 years we went from 837 00:29:55,299 --> 00:29:52,580 literally the laughable fringe the first 838 00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:55,309 time we presented this paper on star 839 00:29:58,720 --> 00:29:56,720 shades we were actually laughed at 840 00:30:00,279 --> 00:29:58,730 because this is a chuckle to now one of 841 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:00,289 the baseline architectures and the 842 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:01,850 reason we were able to do that in such a 843 00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:04,370 short amount of time is we had a really 844 00:30:08,649 --> 00:30:06,350 nice integrated science and engineering 845 00:30:10,270 --> 00:30:08,659 team scientists contribute to scientists 846 00:30:12,250 --> 00:30:10,280 the engineers pretty contribute the 847 00:30:14,260 --> 00:30:12,260 engineering and that combination of 848 00:30:15,970 --> 00:30:14,270 those two disciplines really allowed us 849 00:30:18,130 --> 00:30:15,980 to solve problems far faster than 850 00:30:20,860 --> 00:30:18,140 anybody ever thought we would solve so 851 00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:20,870 that's really the key I think to success 852 00:30:26,409 --> 00:30:23,240 four star shades is the ability of an 853 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:26,419 industry government and academia team 854 00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:28,610 working together arm and arm to go 855 00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:30,080 forward and that's really been 856 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:32,150 beneficial on really got us through a 857 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:34,010 lot of problems very quickly okay so 858 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:35,450 Alberto you're in that Club to how about 859 00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:36,710 you give us comments on that I 860 00:30:41,140 --> 00:30:39,590 completely agree with but what both well 861 00:30:43,390 --> 00:30:41,150 these guys actually said because it's 862 00:30:44,259 --> 00:30:43,400 it's absolutely true so I just came from 863 00:30:46,539 --> 00:30:44,269 a panel 864 00:30:48,219 --> 00:30:46,549 call Korea's one on one when I gave my 865 00:30:49,899 --> 00:30:48,229 perspective about exactly about this way 866 00:30:52,869 --> 00:30:49,909 and so exactly along the lines of what 867 00:30:54,879 --> 00:30:52,879 well lon and Ron and Steve actually said 868 00:30:57,419 --> 00:30:54,889 but one other thing i want to add is 869 00:30:59,919 --> 00:30:57,429 also that sometimes that they need for 870 00:31:01,419 --> 00:30:59,929 talking to engineers in the language 871 00:31:02,739 --> 00:31:01,429 they can understand it translate those 872 00:31:04,449 --> 00:31:02,749 requirements are from science for 873 00:31:05,829 --> 00:31:04,459 example into engineer requirements 874 00:31:07,449 --> 00:31:05,839 something that really is some time is 875 00:31:08,919 --> 00:31:07,459 missing so if you don't have that your 876 00:31:10,869 --> 00:31:08,929 project would not really go very well 877 00:31:13,449 --> 00:31:10,879 and so people like like Steve you know 878 00:31:15,219 --> 00:31:13,459 people like like like Ron are those 879 00:31:16,869 --> 00:31:15,229 they're mediators if you will a 880 00:31:18,099 --> 00:31:16,879 translator right they translate some 881 00:31:19,419 --> 00:31:18,109 requirements are come from us to visit 882 00:31:21,069 --> 00:31:19,429 what is the science that you want to 883 00:31:22,749 --> 00:31:21,079 implement so this is how you actually 884 00:31:24,639 --> 00:31:22,759 build this and then they argue for a 885 00:31:25,629 --> 00:31:24,649 while and then it compromised and 886 00:31:28,449 --> 00:31:25,639 actually that's part of the team and 887 00:31:30,879 --> 00:31:28,459 successful team actually is a team that 888 00:31:31,989 --> 00:31:30,889 can draw from the sensor comments 889 00:31:33,489 --> 00:31:31,999 understand how you implement those 890 00:31:35,379 --> 00:31:33,499 requirements while pushing the 891 00:31:37,089 --> 00:31:35,389 engineering at the limit you know we do 892 00:31:38,709 --> 00:31:37,099 this every level jeddah-based e but it's 893 00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:38,719 a it's a very successful thing that we 894 00:31:43,149 --> 00:31:40,399 do and i think actually there's a is a 895 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:43,159 great partnership that has to be had you 896 00:31:47,379 --> 00:31:45,529 know in in between industry academia and 897 00:31:49,089 --> 00:31:47,389 an engineering just because of this yeah 898 00:31:50,259 --> 00:31:49,099 i just want to make that point because i 899 00:31:52,029 --> 00:31:50,269 know a lot of people think there's 900 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:52,039 really only one path in science an 901 00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,570 astronomy they did you know that you go 902 00:31:56,379 --> 00:31:55,039 to graduate are your undergrad degree 903 00:31:58,119 --> 00:31:56,389 you get a graduate degree you get your 904 00:31:59,499 --> 00:31:58,129 post off you do the postdoc work and 905 00:32:00,999 --> 00:31:59,509 then you hopefully get a job as a 906 00:32:03,789 --> 00:32:01,009 tenured professor at some point but that 907 00:32:05,169 --> 00:32:03,799 is a highly competitive and a difficult 908 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:05,179 way to go and it's not also the only way 909 00:32:08,859 --> 00:32:06,769 to go yeah and that's the point i really 910 00:32:11,889 --> 00:32:08,869 wanted to make the other aspect of that 911 00:32:13,419 --> 00:32:11,899 is um in academia when I was there there 912 00:32:15,699 --> 00:32:13,429 were some very compelling problems I'm 913 00:32:18,399 --> 00:32:15,709 really stimulating mentally stimulating 914 00:32:20,529 --> 00:32:18,409 intellectually you know worthwhile 915 00:32:21,969 --> 00:32:20,539 things that i did when i joined the 916 00:32:23,889 --> 00:32:21,979 government there are also things there 917 00:32:25,569 --> 00:32:23,899 and now in industry there's also equally 918 00:32:27,339 --> 00:32:25,579 no equal number of compelling things to 919 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:27,349 do so so the real thing is you want to 920 00:32:31,469 --> 00:32:29,450 work on something where you have the 921 00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:31,479 ability to contribute where you have 922 00:32:36,339 --> 00:32:34,070 some contribution to something important 923 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:36,349 and at least from my career i was able 924 00:32:39,729 --> 00:32:37,849 to do that as an academic i was able to 925 00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:39,739 do that as a civil servant and able to 926 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:42,679 do that as a member of industry i just 927 00:32:45,369 --> 00:32:43,849 want to add one thing which is the 928 00:32:46,749 --> 00:32:45,379 reason why people are like they say 929 00:32:48,579 --> 00:32:46,759 astronomers for example a companies like 930 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:48,589 a northrop grumman is because their 931 00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,570 skills are in problem solving they've 932 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:52,159 been given a problem that no one else 933 00:32:55,149 --> 00:32:53,450 has seen before and they can actually 934 00:32:56,499 --> 00:32:55,159 walk it through right it's the same 935 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:56,509 thing for engineers that right engineers 936 00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,650 i can solve you know 937 00:33:01,150 --> 00:32:59,360 it's all very very very hard problems 938 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:01,160 and they're hard not because of the 939 00:33:05,260 --> 00:33:03,200 specialty there you know which the 940 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:05,270 thesis with you know the idea that my 941 00:33:08,140 --> 00:33:06,410 thesis in you know a numerical 942 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:08,150 simulations you know what maybe it's not 943 00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:10,250 gonna be very useful but we have a way 944 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:12,470 to approach problems that is not common 945 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:14,690 and that's actually what's worth you 946 00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:16,250 know money and and and works to a 947 00:33:19,180 --> 00:33:17,600 company what's also why a lot of 948 00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:19,190 physicists go into finance to I mean 949 00:33:22,450 --> 00:33:21,230 they solve problems using they're using 950 00:33:27,610 --> 00:33:22,460 their skill set you Sean do you have 951 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:27,620 another one to n Ram samurai two 952 00:33:37,090 --> 00:33:31,970 questions on YouTube how long can the 953 00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:37,100 starshade be kept in space and can you 954 00:33:39,670 --> 00:33:38,360 get all good we didn't we didn't cover 955 00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:39,680 that a good one and can you give us a 956 00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:40,940 good a simple explanation of how you 957 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:42,800 unfurl atlas what was the first one 958 00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:46,730 again i forgot how long his face is 959 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:49,910 saying space he wants that so how long 960 00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:51,710 it stays in space p only driven by the 961 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:54,470 the fuel the thrusters the size of the 962 00:33:58,270 --> 00:33:55,970 tank that you're able to take with you 963 00:34:00,580 --> 00:33:58,280 we would expect to make a mission that 964 00:34:02,980 --> 00:34:00,590 was five years or maybe a little longer 965 00:34:04,450 --> 00:34:02,990 than that that would be designed mission 966 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:04,460 right we talked about a little bit with 967 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:06,650 with the gas for their for the electrons 968 00:34:11,830 --> 00:34:10,850 right unfurling it okay so and there 969 00:34:14,110 --> 00:34:11,840 were a couple of ways we can do this 970 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:14,120 obviously i'm feeling is a critical 971 00:34:18,130 --> 00:34:15,890 problem you're talking about making 972 00:34:20,649 --> 00:34:18,140 something in space that is 50 60 70 973 00:34:22,690 --> 00:34:20,659 meters across and rocking for rocket 974 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:22,700 ferrin's at the moment though are five 975 00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:25,010 meters across or if you use the space 976 00:34:29,649 --> 00:34:27,679 you know the SLS rocket there may be a 977 00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:29,659 little larger so you need to win full 978 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:31,790 the the starshade when you get on orbit 979 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:33,790 a couple of ways of doing that we got 980 00:34:40,020 --> 00:34:36,649 some technology that was used for and 981 00:34:43,450 --> 00:34:40,030 still is used for unfolding 982 00:34:45,099 --> 00:34:43,460 antennas mesh antennas in space and that 983 00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:45,109 kind of its called a perimeter truss 984 00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:50,480 design and it expands with a ring of of 985 00:34:55,659 --> 00:34:53,510 struts around the edge so all the struts 986 00:34:56,889 --> 00:34:55,669 are wrapped up in 2 into 1 cor and as 987 00:34:59,620 --> 00:34:56,899 you drive them out of these struts 988 00:35:02,020 --> 00:34:59,630 expand out into a ring that forms the 989 00:35:04,180 --> 00:35:02,030 center of a star shade deployable design 990 00:35:06,849 --> 00:35:04,190 then then what we have is the pedals 991 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:06,859 attach the edge of that perimeter trust 992 00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:09,050 that our star vertical and as they as 993 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:11,630 the trust pushes out they rotate to to 994 00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:14,450 be flat so that's that's probably the 995 00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,119 easiest way to describe a deployment at 996 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:19,760 the moment and presumably that would 997 00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:21,770 take a long time alright if you look on 998 00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:24,320 youtube and look for star shades and 999 00:35:30,099 --> 00:35:26,990 deployment you will see a about a third 1000 00:35:33,790 --> 00:35:30,109 scale demonstration that was done last 1001 00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:33,800 year I think and so you should be able 1002 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:36,200 to watch it it's on a number of YouTube 1003 00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:38,450 sites so just look for starshade 1004 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:40,220 deployment on YouTube and you'll find a 1005 00:35:43,870 --> 00:35:42,530 demo you'll find a video I'm glad you 1006 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:43,880 mentioned that thing and the next thing 1007 00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:45,170 you can actually see there's actually a 1008 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:47,089 video of a deployment of JPL put 1009 00:35:50,260 --> 00:35:48,650 together i think the full you know 1010 00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:50,270 address rendition but it's actually nice 1011 00:35:57,370 --> 00:35:51,470 it gives you an idea of a Hollywood 1012 00:35:59,380 --> 00:35:57,380 unfurl you know a artist simulation and 1013 00:36:02,410 --> 00:35:59,390 some real demonstrations this gets back 1014 00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:02,420 to your earlier comment about moving 1015 00:36:06,430 --> 00:36:04,670 forward this now has gotten to the point 1016 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:06,440 where we have a little bit of hardware 1017 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:07,970 being demonstrated and we're moving 1018 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:09,770 forward and parallel with the desert us 1019 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:11,930 awesome so yeah well unfortunately folks 1020 00:36:14,829 --> 00:36:13,910 this is not a hangout on air like we're 1021 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:14,839 used to doing we don't have the 1022 00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:16,310 technology to share our screens here 1023 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:18,079 we're just streaming live from one one 1024 00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:20,530 spot so definitely go to youtube and 1025 00:36:24,339 --> 00:36:23,119 look up starshade and all kinds of 1026 00:36:25,660 --> 00:36:24,349 animations will come up and you'll be 1027 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:25,670 able to see this deployment I'm glad we 1028 00:36:35,979 --> 00:36:27,410 brought that up you have anything else I 1029 00:36:43,789 --> 00:36:38,029 you know what I think he should just 1030 00:36:45,709 --> 00:36:43,799 read it we've heard that NASA is the key 1031 00:36:47,420 --> 00:36:45,719 to the starshade moving forward what is 1032 00:36:54,289 --> 00:36:47,430 Northrop Grumman role in development of 1033 00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:54,299 the starshade um we are an aerospace 1034 00:37:00,349 --> 00:36:56,670 industry so we have built demonstrations 1035 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:00,359 of some of the hardware we are looking 1036 00:37:06,249 --> 00:37:03,930 at the engineering aspects of this to go 1037 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:06,259 forward as I said this is an integrated 1038 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:10,890 Northrop NASA academic team so it's kind 1039 00:37:14,479 --> 00:37:12,689 of hard to draw a dividing line as to 1040 00:37:16,549 --> 00:37:14,489 what NASA is doing and what we're doing 1041 00:37:19,130 --> 00:37:16,559 and what academia are doing we're all in 1042 00:37:22,009 --> 00:37:19,140 this as an integrated team and everybody 1043 00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:22,019 has contributed some aspect of both the 1044 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:24,630 optimal performance the deployment and 1045 00:37:28,130 --> 00:37:26,130 this sort of stuff so it's not 1046 00:37:32,509 --> 00:37:28,140 partitioned in that similar way we are a 1047 00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,519 single team so elberta you in it I just 1048 00:37:35,809 --> 00:37:33,839 want to add you know part of a core 1049 00:37:36,769 --> 00:37:35,819 mission is to enhance discovery right so 1050 00:37:38,299 --> 00:37:36,779 that's how we do it we do it with 1051 00:37:40,339 --> 00:37:38,309 jeddah-based a for example we do it in 1052 00:37:42,189 --> 00:37:40,349 many areas of science and starshade it 1053 00:37:44,359 --> 00:37:42,199 just will be another example how we 1054 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:44,369 fulfill that promise you know they'll 1055 00:37:48,739 --> 00:37:46,410 find an exoplanet for example in the 1056 00:37:53,929 --> 00:37:48,749 future all right is there anything else 1057 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:53,939 you saw Mary becker on youtube wants to 1058 00:37:59,569 --> 00:37:56,130 know starshade will work four stars out 1059 00:38:03,979 --> 00:37:59,579 to what distance from us to what 1060 00:38:07,279 --> 00:38:03,989 distance from us Oh somewhat of a fuzzy 1061 00:38:08,689 --> 00:38:07,289 question is on the damage yeah I mean 1062 00:38:11,630 --> 00:38:08,699 you know it basically is how big which 1063 00:38:14,269 --> 00:38:11,640 all soaped you want to go for um when 1064 00:38:15,799 --> 00:38:14,279 you get much beyond about a about a 1065 00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:15,809 hundred parsecs it gets really really 1066 00:38:21,049 --> 00:38:18,660 tough the habitable zone just becomes 1067 00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:21,059 really close for all stars and so 1068 00:38:26,249 --> 00:38:22,630 something within 1069 00:38:27,450 --> 00:38:26,259 um you know 20 to 50 light-years is 1070 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:27,460 probably going to be fairly straight 1071 00:38:33,799 --> 00:38:29,730 forward over the next decade or two 1072 00:38:36,029 --> 00:38:33,809 beyond that it's a lot sent to depend on 1073 00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:36,039 how big of a telescope you want to build 1074 00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:37,990 and how big of a starter you want to put 1075 00:38:42,809 --> 00:38:40,000 with it okay awesome but will sample 1076 00:38:45,749 --> 00:38:42,819 enough space to have a high probability 1077 00:38:48,420 --> 00:38:45,759 of saying does life exist outside 1078 00:38:51,539 --> 00:38:48,430 sources there you go so that's a good 1079 00:38:53,279 --> 00:38:51,549 question um so I guess way is that 1080 00:38:54,839 --> 00:38:53,289 everything there each other okay I guess 1081 00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:54,849 we'll go ahead and let you guys have one 1082 00:38:58,140 --> 00:38:56,079 when I address something that we haven't 1083 00:38:59,309 --> 00:38:58,150 talked about I guess we'll sort of will 1084 00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:59,319 sort of close it there yeah I've worked 1085 00:39:02,069 --> 00:39:00,640 out you have anything you wanna add ok 1086 00:39:04,109 --> 00:39:02,079 all right folks well that's it for our 1087 00:39:07,620 --> 00:39:04,119 first hangout from the double-a s the 1088 00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:07,630 225 I'll be joining me come back what 1089 00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:10,900 time is it in about an hour about about 1090 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:13,089 about another little over an hour I'll 1091 00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:15,130 be setting up at three-thirty pacific 1092 00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:19,089 standard time to talk about the 25th 1093 00:39:23,339 --> 00:39:20,940 anniversary Hubble 25th anniversary 1094 00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:23,349 image release it's coming out in about 1095 00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:25,119 five minutes so we'll have carol 1096 00:39:28,049 --> 00:39:26,230 christian zolta bay and a few other 1097 00:39:31,259 --> 00:39:28,059 people at the Institute to talk about 1098 00:39:33,269 --> 00:39:31,269 that image we hope you'll you will also 1099 00:39:35,069 --> 00:39:33,279 leave us comments and questions and on 1100 00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:35,079 behalf of the folks here at northrop 1101 00:39:40,289 --> 00:39:37,240 grumman Steve and Enron and Alberto